Tuesday, August 18, 2009

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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 06 May 2009 05:23 am
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gandharva wrote:
Not sure where to put it. As Rajiv Malhotra will say: Just another U-Turner.

Quote:
Buddhist Retreat
Why I gave up on finding my religion.
http://www.slate.com/id/2078486/

By John Horgan
Posted Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2003, at 3:54 PM ET
"Eventually, and regretfully, I concluded that Buddhism is not much more
rational than the Catholicism I lapsed from in my youth; Buddhism's moral and
metaphysical worldview cannot easily be reconciled with science—or, more
generally, with modern humanistic values.

For many, a chief selling point of Buddhism is its supposed de-emphasis of
supernatural notions such as immortal souls and God
. Buddhism "rejects the
theological impulse," the philosopher Owen Flanagan declares approvingly in The
Problem of the Soul. Actually, Buddhism is functionally theistic, even if it
avoids the "G" word. Like its parent religion Hinduism, Buddhism espouses
reincarnation, which holds that after death our souls are re-instantiated in new
bodies, andkarma, the law of moral cause and effect
. Together, these tenets
imply the existence of some cosmic judge who, like Santa Claus, tallies up our
naughtiness and niceness before rewarding us with rebirth as a cockroach or as a
saintly lama."


another link discussing the article
http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/04/29 ... -buddhism/



I saw some folks studying Buddhism and their questions. It is very superficial.
There is a rejection of their original faith and they want to change their thinking

Quote:
I’ve always liked Buddhism as far as the mindfulness stuff goes. When I was really practicing the meditation and mettas(loving kindness), I felt really good about a lot of things and it wasn’t magical mystical woo-woo good. Just good. I began to notice a lot of thoughts that I hadn’t before and actually got pretty good at being very in control of them.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 06 May 2009 05:45 am
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KaalChakra

more on Indian, Tamil, Brahmi, Sanskrit Influence


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 06 May 2009 02:44 pm
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Acharya: KAN and Radhakrishna also sided with AIT, that does not mean we ignore their work. Same way with Jacob Pandian. Analyze and conclude issues on a case to case basis.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 07 May 2009 12:51 am
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Ramanaji,
thanks for the refs. Yes, he and his collaborator is the collector of the data. I am collating a larger area data set in parallel, with East Africa, Persian Gulf, Peninsular India and SE Asia.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 07 May 2009 05:33 am
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One great handicap growing up was that maps were a rarity so it was difficult to develop a sense of place for history. And after high school I never got to study Indian history except as a hobby.

Link to maps of India thru the ages:

http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps.htm


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 07 May 2009 05:43 pm
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ramana wrote:
...map through ages...


Nice! wonder if there is a set covering the NE more clearly and the of Andaman's (In recent times - Maratha, British, INA, rep. of India..)


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 08 May 2009 12:18 pm
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Interesting story about the recent archeological find near Sirpur..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5PWNIMMws


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 13 May 2009 05:11 am
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On the Aindra School of Sanskrit Grammarians,

http://books.google.ae/books?id=bKOOb3D ... t&resnum=3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aindra_school_of_grammar

Excerpt from Wikipedia entry:

Burnell's search for the Aindra school took him to Southern India where he came across the Tamilgrammatical work Tolkappiyam. A preface of this work, written during the twelfth century CE by Ilampuranar describes the work as aindiram nirainda Tolkappiyam ('comprising Aindra'). This, Burnell posits is an allusion to the pre-Paninian Aindra school of grammar.

Further, Burnell proceeded to do an exhaustive comparison of the Tokappiyam with two non-Paninian schools of grammar, namely, the Katantra school of Sanskrit grammar and the Kaccayana, a Pali school of Southern India. Based on the comparisons and allowing for divergences due to the structural differences between Tamil and Sanskrit/Pali, Burnell concluded that the Tolkappiyam corresponds to the Katantra school minutely and across the board.

He also demonstrated that many of the technical terms of the Tolkappiyam and of later Tamil grammars were merely simple translations of Sanskrit terms which he attributes to the Aindra school or the other pre-Paninian texts.

While his demonstration of the influence of Sanskrit on the Tolkappiyam has met with some approval, his attribution and approximation of all non Paninian schools of Sanskrit grammar with the Aindra school has met with resistance. Some scholars have also toed a less committal line on the question of Sanskrit influence itself.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 22 May 2009 08:44 pm
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Book review, the Telegraph, may 22, 2009

Quote:
GLIMPSES INTO THE GOLDEN AGE
EDITOR'S CHOICE


Princely affair
SHAH JAHAN: THE RISE AND FALL OF THE MUGHAL EMPEROR By Fergus Nicoll, Haus, £20

This book is a rare achievement because here an amateur historian somewhat outstrips the professional historian in the simple art of writing an analytical narrative about the life and times of an emperor. Fergus Nicoll is a current-affairs journalist with the BBC with an eye for history. He reconstructs in this book the life of the best-known Mughal Emperor, Shah Jahan. The adjective “best-known” has nothing to do with his abilities and his achievements, considerable though they were, but with the mausoleum he built for his favourite queen.

Nicoll has immersed himself in the relevant Persian documentation as well as the accounts left behind by Europeans. He has also read the relevant secondary literature. His research is thus complete and competent. But it is the manner of his telling the story that makes for the attraction of this book. It is eminently readable because it is totally free of any kind of jargon. Nicoll does not reduce history to the telling of one damn thing after another. His account is full of details but these details never slow down his narrative. This is a book that no academic can dismiss with that damning comment: “it is popular history”. It is also a book that a non-specialist with a love for history will enjoy.

The reign of Shah Jahan (1628-59) is often referred to as the golden age of the Mughals. The principal reason for this is its opulence in building, crowned obviously by the Taj Mahal. It was also the period, especially during Shah Jahan’s last years, when elements of the crisis that would cause the Mughal empire’s downfall began to emerge. Nicoll is excellent in describing the splendour of the reign but a trifle weak in reading the omens for the future.

Shah Jahan’s reign has a very long prologue. In this book, he does not come to sit on the throne till the beginning of chapter 10 and after 160 pages. This should not cause any eyebrows to be raised since his youth was important. He was his father’s favourite initially and the working of what historians have come to call the Nur Jahan junta actually went in his favour. This, however, was a passing phase, as Jahangir’s scheming queen, turned against Shah Jahan who rebelled against his father. (The rebellion of Mughal princes against their fathers is a part of Mughal history. Jahangir had risen against his father and had been forgiven. Shah Jahan himself was imprisoned by his son Aurangzeb.) The rebellion failed and Shah Jahan had to roam around the fringes of the empire — the Deccan, Orissa, Bengal and parts of Rajastan. His days out in the cold ended because of a clever piece of plotting by his father-in-law, Asaf Khan, who installed Dawar-Bakhsh (son of Khursraw, Shah Jahan’s eldest brother who had been blinded by Jahangir because of his rebellion.). Even the khutba was read in Dawar-Bakhsh’s name in Lahore after Jahangir’s death. Technically he was the fifth Mughal badshah even though his reign lasted only a few weeks. Shah Jahan had him killed before he ascended the throne. Nicoll is very good in reconstructing this conspiracy.

Nicoll tells in detail how the Mughal court functioned, its various rituals and protocols. He brings these alive by quotations that are highlighted from contemporary observers.

Regarding Shah Jahan’s greatest monument, Nicoll misses the point (made by Giles Tillotson in his book on the Taj) that the Taj Mahal stands in the middle and not at the end of the garden. Archaeological remains have revealed the existence of a garden directly across the river, Mahtab Bagh. The tomb actually lies in the middle of two char baghs and the river flows through the two gardens making it the earthly representation of the Quranic vision of the rivers of paradise.

Nicoll’s book will serve to enhance awareness and interest in the great Mughals



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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 26 May 2009 08:35 pm
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A short description of the
1) Chola Dynasty

2) Hoyasala Empire


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 26 May 2009 09:55 pm
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Paydirt from Delhi Uty

Indian War of Independence 1857- V.D. Savarkar

This book recast 1857 as a war for independence instead of the British view as a mutiny.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 26 May 2009 11:06 pm
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ramana wrote:
This book recast 1857 as a war for independence instead of the British view as a mutiny.


Savarkar wrote this during his secular years abroad before he came back to India.

Although a lot of people don't like him, a few little known facts about him:
1) He was the first to call for absolute Independence. During this time, Congress was calling for autonomy and what not.

2) He was the first to portray the 1857 Mutiny as a "War of Independence".


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 27 May 2009 04:01 am
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A pdf from Germany

Contested Past


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 27 May 2009 07:19 pm
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A link on History of South India.

Its a 8 page summary article that dispels many myths. It was written in 2004 after the NDA defeat.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 27 May 2009 10:02 pm
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ramana wrote:
A link on History of South India.

Its a 8 page summary article that dispels many myths. It was written in 2004 after the NDA defeat.


Though he decries the dearth of those willing to defend Hinduism, he himself is terrible at it by openly stating that Muslims, Christians, and Communists are enemies. Not to mention the caste rhetoric about Brahmins. If he was on BRF, that would have belonged in the whine thread.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 27 May 2009 10:07 pm
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Keshav wrote:
ramana wrote:
A link on History of South India.

Its a 8 page summary article that dispels many myths. It was written in 2004 after the NDA defeat.


Though he decries the dearth of those willing to defend Hinduism, he himself is terrible at it by openly stating that Muslims, Christians, and Communists are enemies. Not to mention the caste rhetoric about Brahmins. If he was on BRF, that would have belonged in the whine thread.

Would you care to highlight passages for my benefit where he mentions the caste rhetoric about Brahmins or states that Muslims, Christians, and Communists are enemies? Am at work and cannot read through the 8 pages.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 27 May 2009 10:11 pm
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BijuShet wrote:
Would you care to highlight passages for my benefit where he mentions the caste rhetoric about Brahmins or states that Muslims, Christians, and Communists are enemies? Am at work and cannot read through the 8 pages.


Quote:
The second reason for my choice of the subject relates to the general ignorance of the Hindu intellectuals about Hinduism which has generated self hatred among them. They are ignorant not only of their own roots but also of their adversaries like the Muslims, Christians and the communists. All these adversarial groups are well versed in the techniques of debate. They defend very ably the indefensible. The Islamists know the deficiencies of their religion, its cruel intolerance, its appropriation of others' faith, science, architecture including buildings, wealth and culture. The communists are also proficient in sophistry and in the art of obfuscation.


Quote:
The Brahmins are a much reviled lot these days. Sastri says (p289)"In civil life Brahmins occupied a highly respected position. With the exception of the few who entered state service in the army and elsewhere, they generally devoted themselves to religious and literary pursuits and stood outside the race for wealth and power. They lived on voluntary gifts from all classes of people from the king downwards." Sastri quotes Sir Charles Eliot "The intellectual superiority of Brahmins as a caste was sufficiently real to ensure its acceptance and in politics they had the good sense to rule by serving, to be ministers and not kings. In theory and to a considerable extent in practice, the Brahmins and their Gods are not an imperium in imperio but an imperium super imperium." Sastri goes on "It cannot be denied that the Brahmin did not always live up to the ideals of his vocation and that some movements, like that of the Lingayats, raised a protest against the position accorded to the Brahmin in society; but as a rule they he proved true to his trust and the rest of the community willingly ackonwledged the justice of it in every way."


Seems to me like the Brahmins failed to do a lot of things. Ambedkar is testament to that.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 28 May 2009 12:39 am
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ramana wrote:
A link on History of South India.

Its a 8 page summary article that dispels many myths. It was written in 2004 after the NDA defeat.

Just an observation. Tambramhs, especially the Iyer variety, usually rally against Tamil. They speak the tamil language at the same time remain little unattached or distant (or share some of the same interests) from non-tambramhs.


Last edited by SwamyG on 28 May 2009 01:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 28 May 2009 01:10 am
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SwamyG wrote:
Just an observation. Tambrahas, especially the Iyer variety, usually rally against Tamil. They speak the tamil language at the same time remain little unattached or distant (or share some of the same interests) from non-tambrahms.

There are some tambrams who absolutely hate tamil nadu. During the dravidian movement, they were given the short end of stick, with the state govt playing an overt while the centre under our genius Nehru family a silent role.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 29 May 2009 12:52 am
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Essay on Kushanas and Kanishka's date

http://www.kushan.org/essays/chronology/kanishka.htm


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 29 May 2009 01:35 am
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^^^^^

The above gives too much importance to the Kushans and Sakas, without acknowledging the existence of Indian Warrior Clans in that same period:

Image

The foreign invaders followed the Saka era of 78 CE while the Indian Warrior Clans follwed the Vikrami Samvat of 57 BCE.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2009 10:28 pm
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I had posted a link to Megasthenes' "Indica" in the Non-Western Worldview thread but moderators decided to have the conversation moved.

Acharya asked -
Did he also describe human rights in that period and the state enforcing human rights on 'higher labor' and 'lower labor'.

His take on the castes is very liberal. Some other historians have taken the idea that slavery never existed in India and assumed that caste oppression never existed. Obviously, we know thats not the case but M seems to think India was a very free society. Very favorable from his point of view.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 05:42 am
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http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/ ... square.htm
Quote:
Wu is probably not aware that 'democracy' has not been invented by the West. More than 2,500 years ago, in the Buddha's time, small democratic republics flourished in North India; archeologists have even said that more than 5,000 years ago, the Indus-Saraswati civilisation knew the principle of decentralisation and participatory governance.
Greece and the West discovered it much later. It is therefore wrong to associate 'democracy' with the West


Never have i heard anything about democratic republics within the old India. Does any one know better?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 08:26 am
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AdityaM wrote:
http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/jun/03/slide-show-1-remembering-the-tragedy-at-tiananmen-square.htm
Quote:
Wu is probably not aware that 'democracy' has not been invented by the West. More than 2,500 years ago, in the Buddha's time, small democratic republics flourished in North India; archeologists have even said that more than 5,000 years ago, the Indus-Saraswati civilisation knew the principle of decentralisation and participatory governance.
Greece and the West discovered it much later. It is therefore wrong to associate 'democracy' with the West


Never have i heard anything about democratic republics within the old India. Does any one know better?


Even before we go there, the underlying assumption in this is that democracy should be put on top of a pedestal and be worshipped. IMVHO, civilizations should choose what is right for them and pursue it.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 09:03 am
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Neela wrote:
Even before we go there, the underlying assumption in this is that democracy should be put on top of a pedestal and be worshipped. IMVHO, civilizations should choose what is right for them and pursue it.

Fair enough, but how do civilizations (and not specific rulers) choose what is right for them? If they can choose, then they exercised a democratic process. otherwise "what is right" was imposed upon them.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 09:29 am
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AdityaM wrote:
Neela wrote:
Even before we go there, the underlying assumption in this is that democracy should be put on top of a pedestal and be worshipped. IMVHO, civilizations should choose what is right for them and pursue it.

Fair enough, but how do civilizations (and not specific rulers) choose what is right for them? If they can choose, then they exercised a democratic process. otherwise "what is right" was imposed upon them.


When a democratically elected government is in power, don't they _impose_ their will on the people, even if the people don't like it? Does that mean that the power to just choose who, rests with the people and not what?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 09:54 am
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AdityaM wrote:
http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/jun/03/slide-show-1-remembering-the-tragedy-at-tiananmen-square.htm
Quote:
Wu is probably not aware that 'democracy' has not been invented by the West. More than 2,500 years ago, in the Buddha's time, small democratic republics flourished in North India; archeologists have even said that more than 5,000 years ago, the Indus-Saraswati civilisation knew the principle of decentralisation and participatory governance.
Greece and the West discovered it much later. It is therefore wrong to associate 'democracy' with the West


Never have i heard anything about democratic republics within the old India. Does any one know better?


I am not 100% sure but, Dwarka under Sri Krishna was supposed to be close to democracy. There were no monarchs but elected representative for Yadavs(the clan of Krishna).


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 03:21 pm
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Look for the term Mahajanapadas. There were 16 of them all over India from the end of the epic age to the beginning of the historic age. According to Hema Chandra Ray Chaudhri (HRC) the kingdoms were replaced with the maha janapadas which had a king/leader chosen by the people. So it might not be a democracy but was representative government. The Mahajanapadas declined as King Bimibisara of Maghada(~550BC) started an imperial quest in order to provide a stable and strong political center. His efforts reached its maximum potential under the Emperor Ashoka in about 300 years later.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2009 08:36 pm
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AdityaM wrote:
Never have i heard anything about democratic republics within the old India. Does any one know better?

to add to what ramana ji has said, a form of grassroots direct democracy in the form of panchayats was always present in India through the ancient times before it got disrupted in the aftermath of the islamic invasion.

AFAIK the state of the Yadavs was more of an oligarchy rather than a democracy.

there is also the incident of Gopala, the founder of the pala dynasty who was elected by the people of bengal following a period of utter chaos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopala_(Pala_king)
Quote:
Democratic election of Gopala

Gopala was the first independent Buddhist king of Bengal and came to power in 750 CE in Gaur by democratic election as per evidence furnished by Taranatha.[1] After the death of famous Gauda ruler Sasanka, there ensued a century of anarchy and confusion in Bengal. Tired of ceaseless political chaos and anarchy (known as matsyanyaya), the various independent chieftains of Bengal, in 750 CE, selected a person named Gopala to put an end to this sorry state of affairs.[2] Gopala was already a leading military general and had made a mark as a great ruler. In the Khalimpur copper plate inscription (dated 32nd regnal year of Dharmapala) Gopala's father Vapyata is described as a noted military chief of his time and his grandfather Dayita Vishnu is described as a learned man of no military distinctions.


bottom line : democracy is much more inherent in Indic civilization than we seem to think.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009 02:14 am
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Rahul M wrote:
AdityaM wrote:
Never have i heard anything about democratic republics within the old India. Does any one know better?


heh! Gives me to get on my favourite soap-box.....We should read Indian literature in original. For example Rahul Sanskrityayan's "सिंह सैनापति" (Sinh Senapati) was a good introduction - it did have AIT elements in it though which I learnt only later :). Indian historical novels in regional languages, and magazines provide good insight into our history and thought.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009 07:18 pm
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Google book on

Royal Gurjars by Naunihal Singh

and

Political History of Chalukyas of Badami by D.P. Dikshit

Samay do you have these on line?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009 07:27 pm
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A IAS exam guide on Indian History and book recommendations.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009 05:22 pm
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it would be fruitful to apply rh Quigely process when we study the various dynasties that ruled all over India. It gives a more comprehensive idea thant the usual dynasty rose and dynasty fell type of history of India that was taught to us in India under the Muslims(Ferishta), British(Vincent Smith) and modern India(Thapar)

Quote:
Quigley was in fact a leading theorist of the rise and fall of civilizations, developing a 7-stage model (Mixture, Gestation, Expansion, Age of Conflict, Universal Empire, Decay, and Invasion) that was integrated into a framework of analysis that included dimensions of power (military and political), wealth (economic and social), and outlook (intellectual and religious). His illuminating discussion of the geographical and climatic matrix in which a civilization develops, his keen interpretation of the political and epistemological underpinnings of ancient philosophy, and his dynamic analysis of the mechanisms of expansion and conflict stages of civilization were a good deal more scientific and well-grounded than the more literary efforts of other historians of civilizations.



Full text pdf
Thanks for reading.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009 05:33 pm
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ramana wrote:
A IAS exam guide on Indian History and book recommendations.
I looked at the book recommendations and have read/known about several authors and their works. Out of all the history recommended ancient/early/medieval India authors, how many from the list have a good grasp of Sanskrit and knowledge of SD literature? If they are not, are they qualified to comment on historical events and interpret them for us?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009 05:37 pm
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AL basham was thapar's thesis adviser wasn't he ?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009 06:47 pm
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Rahul M wrote:
AL basham was thapar's thesis adviser wasn't he ?
Do not know that for sure, but she does refer to his works.

Here is the issue with the Basham's of the world, this is from Dr. Arvind Sharma.


Quote:
A. L. Basham narrates a Hindu folktale.

A wealthy merchant, Ratnadatta, has no sons, and his only daughter, Ratnāvalī, much loved and pampered by her father, refuses to marry, despite the pleading of the parents. Meanwhile a desperate thief had been captured by the king, and is led through the streets to the execution by impalement.
“To the beat of the drum the chief was led
to the place of execution,
and the merchant’s daughter Ratnāvalī
sat on the terrace and watched him.
He was gravely wounded and covered with dust,
but as soon as she saw him she was smitten with love.
Then she went to her rather Ratnadatta, and said:
‘This man they are leading to his death
I have chosen for my lord!
Father, you must save him from the king,
or I will die with him!’
And when he heard, her father said:
‘What is this you say, my child?
You’ve refused the finest suitors,
the images of the Love-god!
How can you now desire
a wretched master-thief?’
But though he reproached her thus
she was firm in her resolve,
so he sped to the king and begged
that the thief might be saved from the stake.
In return he offered
the whole of his great fortune,
but the king would not yield the thief
for ten million pieces of gold,
for he had robbed the whole city,
and was brought to the stake to repay with his life.
Her father came home in despair,
and the merchant’s daughter
determined to follow
the thief in his death.
Though her family tried to restrain her
she bathed,
and mounted a litter, and went
to the place of impalement,
while her father, her mother and her people
followed her weeping.
The executioners placed
the thief on the stake,
and, as his life ebbed away,
he saw her come with her people.
He heard the onlookers speaking
of all that had happened,
For a moment he wept, and then,
smiling a little, he died.
At her order they lifted the corpse
from the stake, and took it away,
and with it the worthy merchant’s daughter
mounted the pyre.”[3]
He then concludes the account with the following note.

Stories such as this puzzle the social historian. If the texts on the Sacred Law have any relation to real life it is quite incredible that a girl of good class in the 11th century should have been given such freedom by her parents, or should even have thought of legally marrying a despised outcaste. The story probably looks back to a much earlier time, when social relations very much freer.

The question is: should we not revise our view of filial relations in the 11th century rather than locate the evidence in a distant past, so that we don’t have to?


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009 11:14 am
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Airavat:

The Kshatriy Lohana community of Gujarat claims them to be descendants of Kushans. But their understanding is different as they claim themselves to be from Raghuvanshi clan. Kushans are the descendants of Kush - Son of Lord Ram of Raghukul = Kush-Ansh = Kushan.

The Western historians understanding that the Kushans were nomadic chinese tribe Yue-Chi/ does not fit very well.

Statues, stuccos and coins images show Kushan kings with big beards and moustaches. Where on earth chinese have big beards and moustaches - the hairs together will leave half space emplty if passed thru a small Anguthi.

Image

looking at the picture of a kushan prince above, the face looks more caucasus than mongoloid


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009 04:09 pm
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Manasvi wrote:
looking at the picture of a kushan prince above, the face looks more caucasus than mongoloid


That doesn't necessarily prove anything. If you look at Chinese portraits of Turkish generals or even Marco Polo, you'll think he was Chinese. That community might have their own particular story, but this doesn't negate the evidence that the Kushans were Central Asians who are themselves a mix of anybody who ever conquered the area.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009 08:36 pm
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Whats the evidence that Kushan's were a non-Indic tribe/power? Serious question.


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Post subject: Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009 08:58 pm
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Sanku wrote:
Whats the evidence that Kushan's were a non-Indic tribe/power? Serious question.


The old texts and inscriptions say that the Kushans were a Central Asian tribe called Yu Chei who moved from Kashgar to Afghanistan area.

here is the wiki article on Kushans


They are considered as eastern most of the Indo_Europeans. Not Sinic.

They are Indic people. Maybe on this basis India should claim Kashgar to apply Mao's logic.

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